37 428 stands at Bangor with the 15:58 Holyhead - Crewe on 28 October. Coach numbers are 4854, 13227, 35518, 5389. (Rowan Crawshaw.)

Regular Contributors: Dave Sallery , Alan Crawshaw, Rowan Crawshaw, Dave Skipsey, John Lewis,  John Murray, DJ Crawford, Tony Flusk,  John Dawson , Derick Norman, Tony Miles, Ian Bowland, Tim Rogers, Ivor Bufton, Alastair Graham, Mike Stone, Tim Proudman, 'Concrete Bob'  and Steve Vaughan.

LAST UPDATE: 30 October 2000

To the North Wales Coast main page : To The previous Noticeboard

It's raining ... report by 'Concrete Bob'

It appears from the television news that the NW has suffered the least in comparison; however, we have still suffered, and there is the knock on effect from the rest of the country.

Services on the evening of 29 October were noted as between an hour and two hours late, and the mood was riotous.The underlying cause wasn't clear; It is my guess that emergency engineering work and temporary speed restrictions started it off, with services starting late because of delays on inward bound trips. With trains running out of sequence, train crews and the trains they were supposed to relieve became separated, causing even more delay. Crewe had several trains in platforms waiting for this purpose, and gave rise to at least one unusual move when an Alphaline Manchester to Cardiff service was brought through the station, and reversed into the south end bay platform 7.

North Wales coast services were relatively unaffected, most delay was on long distance Virgin and Alphaline trains; for instance, the 16:47 Milford Haven to Holyhead service was about 40 minutes late, having had adhesion problems on the northward journey, and arrived in Holyhead late enough to delay the driver's next job, the 02:09 Holyhead to Birmingham, formed with 37 428 and four full coaches, by about 20 minutes. Incidentally, water wings and flippers are being issued to drivers who man this loco... on account of the terrible windscreen leak in number one end!

Further delays to coast line trains was occasioned by flooding between Chester and Crewe, at Wardle Hall farm (bridge 20), the former Tattehall road station, Waverton A51 overbridge, and probably worst at Christleton where one driver likened the experience of negotiating the short tunnel as similar to being on a barge. At all these locations at this time, the water was about 2 to 3 inches over rail level and standing, enough to short all the track circuits and turn all the signals to danger, meaning that drivers had to be talked through  the section. Delays of  about an hour were typical. By 08:30 on 30 October, it was still raining and I predict that it got worse before easing. - 30 October

Can anyone put the story to this dramatic picture sent in to us by Andy Dunnett? Andy writes: 'I can't remember where it came from, the date on the back says 47 492 Holyhead 30.10.1978, looks like it might have derailed outside the depot. - 30 October

Diagram curio

Manchester commuters might be interested to know that the 06:55 Chester to Manchester Piccadilly via Northwich, due in Manchester Piccadilly at 08:16, is worked (Mon - Fri at least) by a Class 175 which runs into Platform 14 at Piccadilly and then continues as the 08:17 Manchester Piccadilly - Llandudno via Helsby. An example of First North Western getting the best out of their assets, and a handy unadvertised through train to Oxford Road, at the risk of delay to the Llandudno train. - 30 October

I thought readers might be interested in the last stage of my journey by rail from Basel to Chester on 28 October.

On arrival at Euston at about 10.15 it was, of course, heaving with people.  TV cameras and reporters interviewing passengers were to be seen.  We were booked on the 11.20 Glasgow train and decided to wait for it rather than accept the proffered advice to get on an earlier one - too many people for comfort were obviously doing that.  I wasn't in the mood to make notes of departure times and cancellations but for example the 09.50 Liverpool was well over an hour late leaving.

Thankfully our train was a mere 20 late and was not crowded - no doubt some people booked on it had taken earlier trains.  By then the throngs on the concourse had diminished.  The conductor, a big Lancashire lad named Darren, was absolutely splendid.  He was cheerful, friendly, made repeated announcements with what info he had and passed along the train several times to talk to people and deal with any individual queries.  He was so impressive that I've nominated him for a Virgin "great service" award.

We were eventually 70 late at Crewe. Our usual taxi-man who was to meet us had to withdraw because he had another fare soon after our theoretical arrival time. We just missed the 14:45 to Chester but decided to wait for the 15:27 originating from Birmingham.  This was to depart from platform 11, where numerous passengers were waiting and 175 009 was standing empty but not boarding.  175 104 came in 5 late and coupled up. People then piled into 009 but we didn't leave until 15.45 because of a problem with closing one of the doors. [One day this train will leave Crewe on time! - C.H.] A spirited run to Chester in the scheduled 18 minutes, a local taxi and we were home only two hours later than expected! - 30 October

The Borderlands Line Passenger Services have unfortunately, for the most part gone over to 153-railcar operation. I say unfortunately, not just out of sheer nostalgia but also from a practical point of view. The 153's having inferior acceleration for the many station stops on the line struggle to keep to time and with the tight timetabling with very little slack at the ends of each run to make up lost time any loss is difficult to get back. They also lack capacity. On Tuesday this week the 153 left Hawarden Station with about 10 people standing. Also a lot of mums with pushchairs and buggies as well as cyclists use the line and the brake van is ideal. On the Tuesday evening there were six youngsters with bikes and myself to get on at Shotton. The only saving grace was that it was a very ill 142 which does have better access and a little more internal space than a 153. Unfortunately, the aforementioned 142 043 was suffering from low power (which had been reported by the driver three days earlier!) and as a consequence it took 22 minutes to cover the 4 miles from Shotton to Buckley, grinding to a stand twice.

It would appear that the need to use 153 units rather than the generally more suitable (although more expensive to run?) 101's is due to driver shortage. According to FNW staff at Chester, the reason that 153's have returned to the top line is, like most things on the railway nowadays, not straightforward.  Chester and Wrexham have lost a number of drivers to Freightliner Heavy Haul in Crewe, you get paid more to drive ballast trains than passenger ones ...   So the 153's are coupled together to run to Wrexham where one is left in the platform while the other does the first run, so saving a driver's hours.  To do it with 101's would mean using a shunter in Wrexham to split the units.  If the driver complement
increases in time then it is suggested that the 101's will return.

That is not to say the trusty 101's never appear! On Saturday 21 October 101 679 shared the turn with a 153 and on Wednesday 25 October both Diagrams were in the hands of 'Heritage Units' 101 682/101 692

Freight: Not a lot seen! 66 191 was at DMJ on Thursday 26 at 1612 waiting to depart on a late running 6V78 and on Friday 27 66196 was on 6F59 also running late, not really surprising as all the passenger traffic is late too, at 10:43 at Chester.

General 101 notes: Despite the loss of 101's from the Wrexham to Bidston and the Conwy Valley line there are still plenty about in the area for anyone able to get off the 37's for a little alternative 'Heritage'. As well as working most (but by no means all) the Marple, Rose Hill and Sheffield stopping services from Manchester Piccadilly they can be found increasingly back on the Chester to Pic. via Stockport as well as some of the Man. Pic to Chester via Warrington. On the former route, 2D40 0646, 2D48 1024, 2D44 1324, 2D40 16242D40 1924 & 2D46 2224 Man. Pic to Chester are worked by one 101.which returns from Chester as 2H81 0820, 2H89 1157, 2H85 1455, 2H83 1757 & 2H89 2057. Sometimes 2H87 the 1055 diagram is also a 101 but is more usually a 175. On the latter (Man. Pic. to Chester most services are 156 with the occasional 158/150 or, for a real treat a 142! However 1D49 (SX) the 2017 Man. Pic. to Chester always seems to be a 101 as is occasionally 1D48 1917 Man. Pic to Chester which are both booked for a 175! Catch them while you can!

And ...  As for trying to catch a train anywhere else? Virgin, whilst experiencing problems with speed restrictions over many of it's routes seem to be taking the easy way out, cancelling a number of their services along the coast and leaving First North Western to sort out the congestion they leave behind. Apparently 1D90 on Friday night was to run as a bus from Crewe to Holyhead. Presumably 1D89 ran (Late?) as the return working 1A13 the 05:43 HST on Saturday was on almost on time at Chester. Despite being told that 1D87 was cancelled by the staff at Chester, something resembling an HST was approaching Bangor from the west at just after 1400. However, the lack of the 09:19 really left FNW's  08:53 totally wedged leaving Holyhead at 09:10 with every vestibule and centre aisle full to overflowing. Room was created for anyone trying to join the train further along the coast by asking those for Manchester and anyone for London to Join the Man. Pic. train at Llandudno Jct. (London passengers to Change at Warrington). Surely Virgin are obliged to run all their trains or are they being fined? It is not too much to ask that they could at least maintain a service along the coast, Crewe to Holyhead which could be maintained just about with one HST or stock and 47/7 instead of producing the dangerously overcrowded situation that existed on 1G96? They could alternatively pay to hire a couple of extra coaches to strengthen FNW loco hauled services maybe? After all it should be about putting safety before profits. - 30 October

To the lights!

An staff excursion from Chester via Birmingham and Manchester to Blackpool was run on Sunday 29 October, becoming the first 175 to visit Blackpool, and worked throughout by a crew from Chester depot. Darren Williams' picture shows 175 010 and 175 104 posing in front of the famous skyline; not exactly beach weather...  - 29 October

Showing off his new zoom lens, Alan Crawshaw photographed 37 428 running into Llandudno Junction on 28 October with the 12:07 Birmingham - Holyhead. For a full report by Alan on the day's events, visit the Bikes and Trains website.

175 104 + 175 009 stands at Bangor with the 14:23 Birmingham - Holyhead on 28 October. Note the 'Not In Service' on  the rear.

We arrived at Bangor station in pouring rain and joined the long queue at the booking office, only one window being open. We caught the 11:28 to Llandudno Junction which was 175 104 so we jumped onto the centre car hoping to use the 'entertainment system'. Billingual sign says 'Customers may use their own
headset to listen to the free entertainment provided at these seats. Please do not disturb other passengers when using this facility.  Customers using this system do so at their own risk'. We didn't have a headset with us. The risky music might be Puff Daddy perhaps ... The train left on time, with the a robotic lady voice annoucing the station steps, backed up by the display. The air conditioning was working very well with no draughts and the right temperature. Ride is smoother than loco-hauled stock but worse than an HST. Luggage space was poor as the overhead racks are useless for daysacks and sports bags. Our journey back from Llandudno Junction was on the 12:07 Birmingham - Holyhead behind 37 428. Monitor at Llandudno Junction showed no sailings to Ireland for 28 and 29 October. My notes bwlow show the variety of stock in use:

10:23 Crewe to Bangor    150
09:55 Manchester to Holyhead  153+150
08:25 London - Holyhead Virgin  43 099/101
11:47 Llandudno to Manchester 156
10:17 Manchester to Llandudno 150
10:07 BNS to Holyhead   175 105
12:19 Llandudno to Bangor   175 011/009
11:17 Manchester to Llandudno 156
12:22 Crewe to Holyhead   175 005
14:42 Ll Jct to Bangor    175 008
12:17 Manchester to Llandudno 158 755
14:15 Crewe to Holyhead & return 14:49 to BNS 150

43 101 arrives Llandudno Junction with the 08:25 London - Holyhead on 28 October. The stick-on name 'The Irish Mail' which was named on 1st August 1998 as part of the Irish Mail 150th Anniversary, has been removed. - 29 October

Inside Story

First North Western management have other things to do than reply to this Website, but rail journalist Tony Miles is in close touch with events, and sends us some notes of explanation:

One of the reasons there has been problems with catering during the "crisis" has been that catering staff are getting out of place as services get delayed. Other problems have included dirvers & crew having to take statutory "personal needs breaks" after being delayed, which adds further to the chaos. This can affect inbound workings and result in stock shuffles (like ending up with a 142/153 on the NWC perhaps?) I think those involved in planning diagrams are just having to play the thing as it develops through each day.

Having spent an hour at Preston on Friday night I think all staff were doing a great job at just keeping the flow of information and passengers going. The announcer at Preston was even giving out the progress of each VT train (as they were about 2 hours late!) and which station they had reached etc. - 29 October

Our contributor John Murray has not had the best of treatment from the railway companies over the last year or so, as the farewell version of his Website shows... - 29 October

In a rare sunny interval  5029Nunney Castle turns on the triangle at Valley before working the return Ynys Mon Express charter train, 28 October. Picture by a very rain-soaked John Lewis.

[A selection of our pictures of this train as a Real Slideshow with music track]

Locomotive change at Crewe for the Birmingham - Holyhead 'Ynys Mon Express', 28 October, photographed by Ian Bowland in dismal weather conditions. Above, the train arrives at Crewe with Ian Riley's 37 038 in charge and looking immensely tatty.

5029 Nunney Castle backs on with its support coach while the 37 and its coach wait in the centre road.

Posing together before departure. - 28 October

For a good summary of the appalling state of the country's rail services on 28 October, including rare footage of a 3-car 175 unit, we'd recommend you to play the Real-Video news report by Daniel Sandford on the BBC news website. - 28 October

I was out for a trip around Manchester during the great Thursday 26 October show.  I had intended to take 1K57 between Rhyl and Chester, from which I would have changed into the following 08:46 Llandudno-Manchester Piccadilly railcar.  Ominously, Rhyl's Home signal remained at danger as the loco-hauled's scheduled 09:05 departure time came and, sure enough, there soon followed an announcement that the 156, forming the Manchester, would arrive first as 1K57 had been reported running 15 minutes late at Llandudno Junction.  Fortunately, the 156 was not as overcrowded as I would have expected and an on-time arrival was recorded.

Return included a connection into 1D99 at Chester, this arrived 28 minutes down at 01:37 behind 37 412 but lost no further time between Chester and Crewe.  The stock on this working was noticeably colder than usual but I'm not sure whether this was because of any fault with the loco.  By the sound of others' experiences, it appears I got away pretty lightly! - 28 October

37 428 takes the well filled 15:58 Holyhead to Crewe past Bangor signalbox. Picture by Alan Crawshaw, who adds: 'Passengers were standing in the vestibules and the  brake van when it left the station, so anyone hoping to board further along the coast would be struggling. I hope First North Western have noted the frequent overcrowding of late, and ensure there are sufficient 175s in service to comfortably accommodate those wishing to travel  before making further cutbacks to the locomotive hauled services.' - 27 October

Who'd run a railway?

We've now assembled the full story of the happenings of 26 October, so we've re-written the item to explain the full rail manager's (and passenger's) nightmare of the day. Please re-visit the story below and be glad you weren't packed into a 142 along with all the passengers meant for two loco-hauled services! - 27 October

Steam times for 28 October

Great Western Castle class 4-6-0 5029 Nunney Castle makes its debut on the North Wales Coast on Saturday 28 October with a Pathfinder Tours charter, the 'Ynys Mon Express' from Birmingham. The timings for this the steam section of this train, Crewe - Holyhead - Crewe, courtesy of the wonderful March Railtour site, go like this:

Crewe  d 10.31,Chester  a 11.02 (Water) d 11.38, Rhyl pass 12.17, Colwyn Bay pass 12.29, Llandudno Jnc a 12.38 (Water) d 13.03  Bangor  pass 13.24 Gaerwen  pass 13.34, Holyhead  a 14.01.

Holyhead  d 16.18 Gaerwen  pass 16.41 Bangor  a 16.57 Bangor  d 17.00 Llandudno Jnc a 17.22 (Water)
Colwyn Bay pass 18.02  Rhyl  pass 18.18 Chester a 19.04 d 19.07 Crewe  a 19.39.

Photographic submissions welcomed. - 27 October

Ongoing track work in the Macclesfield area involves the use of a number of 37s on ballast trains, including some of the Coast line fleet. John Dawson has sent us a very interesting picture report on the nocturnal activities of these machines at Crewe on 22 October. - 26 October

With Virgin Trains services crippled by speed restrictions imposed by Railtrack on all high-speed main lines following the previous week's derailment on the Great Northern line out of London, autumn leaves on the line and First North Western's ongoing rolling stock problems, anyone travelling by rail in the last week of October could expect little but delays and cancellations.

Although the Coast line is not directly affected by the emergency speed restrictions, by 26 October Virgin had taken the decision to abandon its Holyhead services to keep other services running, leaving FNW to manage as best they could. Despite FNW's embargo on the use of no-heat 37s, 37 893 (picture above by Rowan Crawshaw and below by John Skipsey) made a guest appearance.

Tim Rogers explains: '37 421 had started the day at the head of 1G76 01:50 Holyhead to Birmingham but failed on arrival at Llandudno Junction where the train was terminated for a class 153 unit forward. The stock was later taken to Chester by 37 428 which then went to Crewe for an exam. Freight loco 37 706 was then allocated to do 1G96 (08:47 Holyhead to Birmingham NS) from Chester but never made it, as it  failed before leaving Crewe. As a result 37 893 was sent from Warrington. It arrived at Chester at around 10:45 by which time it had been decided to continue with 142 069, which had been all that was available at Holyhead for 1G96,  from Chester on  to Crewe. The 142 was heaving with the normal passengers for 1G96 and also passengers from the cancelled Virgin Holyhead to Euston service (plus a number of 'bashers'!). This train must have been more than twice its normal capacity (definitely a safety issue). On arrival at Crewe the 142 went back light to Chester and the crew were told to take the loco & empty stock from Chester to Wolverhampton to start 1D71, the 12:07 Birmingham to Holyhead there. However, this in the end was truncated back to start at Crewe. The train then left on time at 13:19 still with 37 893 in charge.'

The train a couple of dozen passengers, most of them freezing cold, writes Ian Bowland: 'I enquired if there was a drinks trolley on board and was told it would join at Chester - it didn't, it didn't appear at Holyhead nor did it appear at Llandudno Junction on the return even though I was promised it would.  Nothing to eat, nothing to drink and freezing cold - does anybody at FNW/EWS give a damn?  The conductor even apologised and announced the loco as the guilty party for being a freight engine.'

37 412 Driver John Elliott soldiered on with the other turn, seen at Bangor on arrival with the 15:30 Crewe - Holyhead. As photographer Rowan Crawshaw comments,  next week it will be too dark to take this picture.

The 10:07 Birmingham - Holyhead seen in Rowan's picture above was a 3-car set, 175 104 (are there still only 104 and 105 in traffic?) whilst 2-car 175 008 worked the 12:22 Crewe - Holyhead.

Despite all the chaos, however, the Northern Belle luxury dining train did not disappoint its patrons, except perhaps those who were hoping for a Deltic, as the Deltic Preservation Society have lost the haulage contract to EWS in rather strange circumstances. John Skipsey's picture below shows 47 786 Roy Castle OBE heading off down the coast.

Reporting by Ian Bowland, Rowan Crawshaw, Andrew Rhodes, Tim Rogers, Dave and John Skipsey,  Revised 27 October

The 17:19 Manchester - Llandudno 'Club Train' heads into the sunset (in more ways than one) on 25 October, treating its weary travellers to the luxury of a 153 unit coupled to a 'nodding donkey.' Eight minutes late at Oxford Road, as become the norm, and with the catering trolley trapped in the first coach by lack of corridor connections. - 25 October

Travelled to Chester today from Crewe - arrived on the platform about 12:55 to see the 12:45 departure change to expected 13:15, then at about 13:15 changed to expected 13:29 and it was announced that the 1128 Bangor - Birmingham was being delayed by failure of a preceding train.12:07 Birmingham then came into sight about 5 late and stood opposite the carriage shed (while a preceding Stanstead - Liverpool
stood in Platform 11 asking for fitters)  and eventually was replatformed to Platform 12 and left following the 12:45 Crewe at around 13:35. Naturally then stood at signals at Crewe Steel Works box - 37 428 seemed to be having difficulty restarting.

On arrival at Chester the train ran to Platform 3 via the centre crossover as the unit of the 12:45 Crewe was in the Crewe end to form the 14:13 back, the intervening trip presumably cancelled. Of course if the 12:45 Crewe had been cancelled, delay to the Birmingham would have been avoided and its passengers very little later in Chester.

On my return was surprised to find the up Euston on time, and passed the departing 1T50 15:30 Crewe - Holyhead outside the station. I then wandered down Platform 6 to see the 14:23 from Birmingham, supposed to connect into 1T50, arrive around 15:45. On returning I noticed the train was in the bay and all the passengers still on! Strolling back to the north end I noted the 15:53 to Chester formed 150/2 plus 142. Eventually passengers off the train from Birmingham appeared and joined this train in Platform 9. One or two, clearly for Holyhead, let it go, and one Irish gentleman accosted me and proceeded to moan about the guard having assured all and sundry the 14:23 from Birmingham  was a through train to Holyhead! To make matters worse no-one seemed to think they should tell anyone that the train for the 16:19 to Holyhead was already in Platform 10. [The HSS ferry to Holyhead is booked to depart Holyhead at 18:30, just 6 minutes after the arrival of the 16:19 from Crewe, so the Irishman had every right to moan. - C.H.]

Charlie's  letter to Mr Franks would appear to have been singularly ineffective! - 25 October

Tuesday 24 October -  37 428 makes a comeback

37 421 is pictured by Alan Crawshaw at  the head of the 07:49 Holyhead to Crewe on yet another dismal day in Bangor.

Lunchtime at Crewe, and 1D71, the 12.07 Birmingham-Holyhead,  gave Ian Bowland a surprise when 37 428 Great Scottish and Western Railway Co. The Royal Scotsman turned up, we really thought we had seen the last of this one. 37 412 Driver John Elliott  was dumped near the scrap line on Crewe Diesel Depot, believed to be awaiting a "B" exam, although it had been in action that morning with a freight train to Castleton, Manchester.
 

Back at Bangor later in the day, the rain's still with us but 37 428 brightens up the scene, heading off to Crewe with the 15:58 from Holyhead. (Alan Crawshaw.)

Reporting by Ian Bowland, Paul Braddock and Alan Crawshaw - and special thanks to Chris Pelling who told us the night before that 428 would be working. Unfortunately to due a disastrous technical error at Website Central, this failed to get posted here. - 25 October

A Birthday journey - by John Lewis

Some shots from a little trip to Bangor on 23 October, I took a day off work on account of it being my birthday, so after having listened to U2 on Radio 1 this morning there wasn't much time for anything else!

Three-car 175 105 took me from Holyhead to Bangor as the 14:05 from Holyhead, seen above awaiting departure from Holyhead, and below on arrival at Bangor.

At Bangor, here's 37401 Mary Queen of Scots drawing the 14:40 to Holyhead intoplatform 2 ... 8  minutes late, by the way.

And finally ... here's 37 421 on the "17:23" arrival in Holyhead,  about 15 minutes late eventually, although this journey took less than 25 minutes to get from Bangor to Holyhead........ quite a spirited run, especially down Llangaffo Bank and on to Malltraeth Marsh! - 25 October

Bangor 20 October - by Alan Crawshaw

20 303 leading 20 301 on the eastbound flasks ...

... and 37 401 Mary Queen of Scots on 07:49 Holyhead to Crewe 20 October The third vehicle is the Riviera branded coach in slightly different shades of chocolate and cream to the other two. - 21 October

Sunday 22 October's steam special from Liverpool to Chester and Blackpool (see below) did  indeed run, behind '45157' as these pictures taken at Wigan Springs Branch by Andrew Sharpe prove. Doesn't it look like a model? - 22 October

Saturday 21 October - picture news by Rowan Crawshaw

175 007 terminates at Bangor with the 08:07 from Birmingham on 21 October. Sad to see Class 37 diagrams to go  over to 175s and this service was a loco run round at Bangor.

47 747 Graham Farish at Bangor on 21 October with 09:19 Holyhead - London. - 22 October

Fred Karno's Army

To Mr David Franks, Managing Director
First North Western
Bridgewater House
Whitworth Street, Manchester

Dear Mr Franks,

You may possibly recall that when I spoke to y ou at the Stockport 'meet the manager' day I raised my concern about the likely use of 2-car 175 units in place of loco-hauled trains on busy North Wales services, and the overcrowding that would result.

Well, on Saturday 21 October I presented myself at Crewe to catch the 14.23 Birmingham - Holyhead, due to depart Crewe at 15.27. This was shown on the printed sheets as Platform 12 (It was not on the display screens at all as these were full of delayed trains on other lines.) I went to platform 12 to see a 156 unit there, with people getting off and others getting on. I found this surprising, as to my mind this must be the Crewe portion of a terminating train from Llandudno, so I asked an FNW person who seemed to be the driver or guard if it was the Holyhead train and he said yes, so I got on, as the train was already almost full and I didn't want to have to stand.

At 15.30, by which time the unit was full and standing, the announcement came over the PA; 'Ladies and gentlemen, I have just found out this train works the 16.19 to Bangor: the 15:27 Holyhead train is now standing at Platform 11.' So we all had to hurry over the bridge to platform 11 and join the already-busy train, formed of just one two-car 175, and of course some people could not get in. Whilst having a brief conversation with the driver at 15:35, I noticed that the high-tech screen in the cab was showing 15:27 - wishful thinking?

Efforts were then made by the train crew and Virgin staff to persuade Chester-bound passengers to get off ths train as well, and get the 15:43 to Chester, which some obeyed at great inconvenience to themselves, before we finally got away at 15:45. One family with lots of luggage who had managed to get seats in the 175 moved to the Chester train despite my advice to stay put, thus boarding their third train without moving from Crewe. At least I then got a seat!

At Chester, many others were waiting to board, including a lady in a wheelchair, and more attempts to get people off and on to a Manchester - Llandudno train ensued, before we finally got away after a ten-minute stop. We left Chester with over 100 people standing, and at Rhyl more people were left behind, including an elderly lady who had been brought to the train in a wheelchair. On board entertainment was provided by two unhappy babies and a man broadcasting football commentary on his radio...

Of course the whole point of my journey was to get to Colwyn Bay at 16:26 in time for a quick look in the bookshop and a return on the Class 37-hauled train back to Crewe which departs Colwyn Bay at 16:53. In the circumstances I should have got off at Rhyl, but the long stop in Rhyl station and difficulty of actually getting off confused me into staying on until Colwyn Bay, where we arrived at 16:57 thus missing the train back. Getting out of these new units in crowded conditions can be very difficult; the gangways are very narrow and there were 20 people in the vestibule, including several camped in the disabled toilet.

If this was not bad enough, I then had no choice but to catch the Llandudno - Manchester train due at 17:01,  unbelievably formed of  a Class 142 - which at speed gave a good impression of what it must be like to be derailed and running on the sleepers.

In neither direction was the advertised refreshment trolley available.  All this on the first day of the school half term holiday, when a spare locomotive and coaches could easily have been used.

You might think I'm crazy anyway to make such a journey as this, but surely my money's as good as anyone else's especially since Stockport station charged me £21.10 for a Supersaver, claiming that Day Returns are not available, when in fact I could have quite legally saved five pounds by booking a day return to Chester and another from Chester to Colwyn Bay.

All this comes at the end of a week when your Manchester area trains (or lack of them) made me late for work three times and late home twice - and much of this letter was written on Sunday on a train to Buxton on Sunday morning which ground to a halt for ten minutes on the hill to Disley and eventually managed to struggle on with just one engine. I hope this letter is some help to you and that you will feel able somehow to restore your services to their previous quality.

Yours faithfully, Charlie Hulme. - 22 October

'The Bashers' - a Basher's view, by 'Rishton.'

[The Channel 4 programme 'The Bashers' and 'Concrete Bob's comments on it have certainly stirred up some controversy - despite the fact that North Wales viewers were largely denied the chance to see it as it was not transmitted on the S4C Welsh Channel. To prove that 'anyone who's anyone' reads this site, we've heard from two of the stars of the show, and are happy to give space for a reply .- C.H.]

Concrete Bob wrote: "Whilst the technical execution of the programme was excellent, there was adverse comment on the behaviour portrayed in the programme from industry sources; drunkenness, vandalism, trespass and window hanging..." If Concrete Bob or anyone else does not approve of window hanging and drunken behaviour, then that is entirely their choice and I respect their views. However it is worth noting that some of the unruly behaviour on the railtour to Scotland was conducted by railway staff, some of which hold senior positions. But then it was a tour that was run for bashers so I fail to see that there was a problem. 'As for Concrete Bob's reference to vandalism I cannot work out what he could mean? Unless it is a reference to behaviour from the archive Cambrian footage from 1987.

As for the reference to trespassing this sweeping and totally unsubstantiated statement is way wide of the mark. Channel 4 was very keen to avoid any legal implications with this documentary and had the lawyers in on several occasions whilst the film was being edited. I would like to take this opportunity to thank: Railtrack, EWS, First North Western, the East Lancashire Railway and the Class 40 Preservation Society for their full co-operation and authorisation in the making of this film. You may have noticed that Virgin Trains did not feature in this film, this is because they refused to sign, also Railtrack would not give permission to use footage recorded at Birmingham New St. so a very good piece had to be cut.

I do not agree with Concrete Bob's view that "most rail Enthusiasts would not identify with this group' I would suggest that over the last 15/20 years more enthusiasts will have recorded Haulages/mileages in some form than practically any other aspect of the hobby - Trainspotting, photography, linegricing.etc.

As for Concrete Bob's last comments about ticket fraud, this comment disturbs me. I cannot believe that someone would make a public comment of that nature without backing it up. As far as I am concerned Bashers over the years have provided a valuable source of revenue for the various railway companies.

I personally had my reservations when the film was made, but I am happy that the film turned out to be as accurate as it was ever going to be. The original intention was to dispel the myth that the general public hold, that all people interested in railways are Train spotters. Going off the reaction that I have experienced personally, this most definitely has been achieved.

'It is also to be remembered that this film was made for channel 4 and not for enthusiasts, and they know what their audience wants at 01.45 am. I think that the comment made further down the page [by Charlie] is worthy of repeating 'A good piece of TV, and a valuable record which should be stored in the historical records at York museum'. - 22 October

Dave Sallery's Archive Spot

The Class 45 'Peaks' were rarities in North Wales until 1980 when, as part of a reorganisation of Trans Pennine services, they became frequent visitors. Various Cross-Country services were introduced such as Holyhead - Newcastle and Scarborough - Llandudno.  Their introduction also resulted in fewer services being worked by wholly unsuitable classes of DMU.  This happy state of affairs lasted until 1987 when the introduction of Sprinters saw the loco hauled workings replaced by the new units.  The photo shows 45 116 heading west near Abergele on a Manchester - Bangor working, July 4 1984. - 22 October

60 048 Eastern leaves Penmaenmawr quarry with another load of railway ballast, 19 October. Picture John Humphries.

A welcome return by John Humphries with three pictures from 19 October to shows us that there's other life apart from 37/4s. Above, 175 003 at Penmaenmawr with the 09:50 Holyhead - Crewe  looking very sinister indeed, and below 47 843 heads the 09:19 Holyhead - Euston as it approaches Rhyl station. - 20 October

Timings for Sunday 22 October's steam workings: let's hope the trains actually run this time!

1Z38 09:10 Liverpool Lime Street - Chester: Edge Hill pass 09:14, Huyton pass 09:20, St.Helens Jct pass 09:26, Earlestown pass 09:30, Bank Quay pass 09:39, Acton Grange Jct pass 09L43, Frodsham Jct pass 09:50, Helsby Jct pass 09:55,Chester Arrival 10:20 hrs (11" recovery time between Helsby & Chester)

1Z39 12:10 Chester - Lime Street: Helsby Jct pass 12:23, Frodsham Jct pass 12:29, Acton Grange Jct pass 12:35, Warrington BQ arrival 12:39. Loco change at Warrington, 45407 off, class 47 on.Then departs at 12:59, Earlestown pass 13:05, St Helens Jct pass 13:08, Huyton pass 13:13, Edge Hill pass 13:24, Liverpool Lime street arrival 13:30.

(45407 then runs as 0Z40 12:40 Warrington Bank Quay - Edge Hill via Newton le Willows Sidings to turn, departing Edge Hill at 14:36 hrs after watering, for Lime Street)

1Z40 1513 Liverpool Lime Street - Blackpool North: Edge Hill pass 15:17, Huyton arrival 15:24, departs 15:27, St Helens Cen arrival 15:37, departs 15:40, Wigan NW pass 15:54, Euxton Jct pass 16:05, Preston arrival 16:19. Loco change at Preston,  45407 off,class 47 on (which should be on rear ex Lime Street),then departs at 16:56 , Kirkham North Jct pass 16:57, Blackpool North arrival 17:22.

(45407 then runs as 0Z41 1625 Preston - Blackpool North via Farrington Jct & Lostock Hall jct to turn)

1Z41 19:36 Blackpool North - Lime Street: Kirkham North Jct pass 19:52, Preston pass 20:06, Euxton Jct pass 20:14, Wigan NW pass 20:26, St Helens Cen arrival 20:40, departs 20:43, Huyton arrival 20:54, departs 20:56, Edge Hill pass 21:04, Lime Street arrival 21:10.

Thanks to Tony Flusk for this information. - 20 October

Two classic views by Ian Bowland of good old 37 412 Driver John Eliott at Crewe. Above, on 19 October, 1T50 15:30 to Holyhead waits to leave platform 12. Stock was all Regional Railways vehicles,  comprising 4854, 5331, 35518 and 5389. This is 'diagram 2' of the two remaining Monday-Friday turns: it continues at 18:25 Holyhead - Birmingham and then 23:46 Birmingham - Holyhead.

(Unbelievably, reports Mike Stone, the train was allowed to depart at 15:32 without connecting with the 14:23 ex-Birmingham,which arrived at 15:37 despite being advertised as a through service. If that was not bad enough no-one seemed to know what was happening with the passengers - neither traincrew or Virgin staff - giving an appalling impression to the travelling public. After a lot of faffing about the unit
went empty to Chester following the 15:54, the guard working the 16:19.)

Below, on 18 October, 412 was on 'diagram 1' as 1K73  15:58 Holyhead to Crewe. The shot shows it running out to the carriage sidings as with the empty coaches, and later that night would have returned empty to Holyhead to become the next day's 'diagram 2' which starts with the 07:49 Holyhead - Crewe.

'Concrete Bob' writes:  'Whilst the technical execution of the programme was excellent,  there was adverse comment on the behaviour portrayed in the programme from industry sources; drunkenness, vandalism, trespass and window hanging, not to mention the atypical driving technique adopted by at least
one member of staff attracted attention. It is acknowledged that most rail enthusiasts would not identify with this group, and are therefore welcome to enjoy our hospitality; after all they are a source of income and advertising. Some of  the staff with direct contact with these people tell of attempts at ticket fraud, although the specific subjects of the film were not mentioned; they also despaired of the bashers taking their litter home with them, and attempts to hijack the first class compartments on overnight trains for the purpose of dossing!' - 20 October

One place where 37/4 haulage has a certain future is Mike Dunning's 0 gauge garden railway 'Talacre', which features in these two views.... - 20 October

The train which 'broke down' on the morning of 17 October (last notice board) was the  05.51 Llandudno Junction - Crewe, formed of one of those new fangled Alstom thingies and failed at Mochdre; single line working introduced and the train got to Colwyn Bay 125 minutes late.

The up home opposite Prestatyn signalbox has been removed.  For reasons best known to itself Railtrack took away this signal rather than provide a new distant for it for 90mph running.  There is now a "clear" indicator (not a repeater) on the platform because the new home signal has restricted sighting.  A signal post telephone has also been provided as the ability to stop trains opposite the box, i.e. at the now-
vanished signal has been lost.  Because there were previously thee home signals on the Up line it was possible to hold a train at the advanced starter while another was allowed to leave Rhyl, this useful feature has also been lost.  Ain't progress wonderful? - 20 October

[Earlier stories are on the previous Notice Board]

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Created by Charlie Hulme, Comments welcome to charlie@dweb.u-net.com